https://forum.productcart.com/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Sun, 12 Apr 2026 03:13:55 +0000 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:51:56 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.04 360 https://forum.productcart.com/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=1771 https://forum.productcart.com/forum_images/pc_logo_50.png https://forum.productcart.com/ https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5824.html#5824 Author: cmason
Subject: 1771
Posted: 29-June-2008 at 2:51pm

I also enjoy discussion because I wonder "is it just me" and sometimes I learn that it is just me and sometimes I learn that others have the issues. With this discussion at least one other user does have the same problem and there's been enough postings so that any one else having the same issue will no that they're not alone.]]> Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:51:56 +0000 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5824.html#5824 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5823.html#5823 Author: Hamish
Subject: 1771
Posted: 29-June-2008 at 2:36pm

Hi cmason,
  I'm just another user of ProductCart like yourself, but I do know EA keep a keen eye on the forums as well as direct requests for enhancements - and this also impacts on their change/enhancement planning.  Obviously they have large numbers of requests competing for their time and attention, so not all of them make it into the product and those that do may take a while. In the meanwhile we have the freedom to implement any enhancement we wish ourselves, which is a great strenth of ProductCart, with the caveat that we are responsible for maintaining them of course.

Discussion is the meat and drink of Forums  - I think it's great :-)
]]> Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:36:14 +0000 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5823.html#5823 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5822.html#5822 Author: cmason
Subject: 1771
Posted: 29-June-2008 at 1:56pm

I'm glad that I brought the issue forward for discussion but for now I guess we'll just go with custom category code in the navigation, it runs fast enough even on localhost, and not worry about the "Generate Navigation" function. There are other functions to generate site maps so we'll probably be fine in ignoring "Generate Navigation".]]> Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:56:05 +0000 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5822.html#5822 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5818.html#5818 Author: Hamish
Subject: 1771
Posted: 29-June-2008 at 1:03pm

Hi,
     I can see & understand your points. However, automatic navigation re-generation from the admin may equally not suit some stores. Some sites, for example, will add new categories in advance but hold off putting them live until they are ready - which you can achieve in other ways admittedly- just playing devils advocate.

Personally, if it was changed, I'd rather just be prompted to do the update - with a convenient link to do so.

Also, whether you include products in the navigation completely depends on the type of store.

For example one of out sites is a sandwich shop, with maybe 90 products, most of which can be modified once you have accessed them.
For a daily sandwich convenience and the speed of navigating to the one you want should be kept to the bare minimum - going into a categories page first is another step & slows things down. In fact, for that site we deliberately avoid any links to category pages at our clients request.

As for the training issue, keeping it intuitive is great and makes things easier to manage and understand, but as a general principal I would still never advise anyone just dives with no idea what they are doing or how things "hang together" - that's a recipie for disaster. Anyone, one man shop  or 1,000 who just hands over an admin login and says "get on with it" really is asking for trouble. That's true in every field, not just ProductCart. I wouldn't want my house built or my car maintained by someone who had idea of what they were doing and no training and was just trying their best. :-)

Your also right it's the "CRUD" pages - or infact the CUD pages :-)  (for those reading this who haven't come across the term CRUD thats Create, Read, Update, Delete). I'm completely guessing, but with the variations I suppose that would be 20-30 files involved.

]]> Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:03:33 +0000 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5818.html#5818 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5817.html#5817 Author: cmason
Subject: 1771
Posted: 29-June-2008 at 10:44am

Maybe I'm being blind but I don't see that a LOT of pages would have to be changed, just the CRUD category and product pages, although why anyone would include products in their general navigation is a mystery to me. Leave "Generate Navigation" in the "Settings" folder, but make it purely a settings page. Categories is a small table with a small number of fields so adding some code to autogenerate the navigation s/b a small impact. Products table is larger but I'd rather the admins wait another second rather than have inaccurate navigation on the site. Running "Generate Navigation" on my localhost, very slow compared to online server, only takes 2 seconds. I'm generating 505 categories only no products.

Or, how about the CRUD category and product pages regenerate an XML page with all category/product info and then inc_CatsMenu.asp parses it depending on the Generate Navigation settings. That way "Generate Navigation" link would still belong under "Settings" because it is a settings page.

From what I see in header/footer pages there is already a trip to the db to check for Brands, and from a previous post I think some more will be added to check for Featured and Special Products, so for now I'm going with a dynamic generation of categories for use in the navigation area. I'd rather custom code one page for navigation that run around sticking notes on multiple pages or get deeply technical with setting up batch jobs on the server.

The static navigation a really good idea but the implementation needs some tweaking.

Think like a user, how many are even going to notice that quirk in the first place to make sure they add it to their training or custom code? Think about a 1 person shop and that person gets sick or dies, think about multiple admins with turnover. To me I've failed if I have to stick notes all over an interface because what I've developed doesn't run intuitively.



]]> Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:44:17 +0000 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5817.html#5817 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5816.html#5816 Author: Hamish
Subject: 1771
Posted: 29-June-2008 at 4:47am

Hi, to do this automatically would involve changes to quite a few pages in the admin panels and which ones would need to trigger the update would be dependent on which option had been selected for the navigation generation - categories only / top cats & products /  all cats & prods. That said, the code could decide, based on the setting, whether to go ahead.

Alternatives.
- Training.
- Mod the Added / Modified pages to have a prominent link & leave it to the admin user to choose.
- Schedule a daily (or whenever) automatic update via a cron style job on the server, or from s pc.
- FAKE the scheduling - Get the first visitor of the day to trigger an automatic update of the navigation.   See www.asp101.com/articles/john/schedule/default.asp

Of course, for these last two you would need a customised version of the code that generates the navigation.
Personally I'm quite happy with things as they are & if I made any change it would be one of the first two choices.

   ]]> Sun, 29 Jun 2008 04:47:17 +0000 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5816.html#5816 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5815.html#5815 Author: katharina
Subject: 1771
Posted: 29-June-2008 at 12:09am

I've forgotten to generate the navigation after updating our site with new categories and products.  I by accident went back to the "generate navigation" link about a month later and then realized that my store basically hadn't been up to date.  I do not want to go back to dynamic because of its limitation.  What I would suggest is to have a message show up when updating the categories or when adding new products.  I know that can be annoying, but it would remind me.  Perhaps on top of the add category/product page in big letters.  "Remember to update navigation once done".   Not a pop up, because that would be to annoying.  I have to say it is not high on my request list for PC, but it was running in my mind when I updated the navigation.  Another option to think of would be a weekly reminder when you log into the back office to perhaps update the navigation.
Katharina
]]> Sun, 29 Jun 2008 00:09:35 +0000 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5815.html#5815 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5808.html#5808 Author: Hamish
Subject: 1771
Posted: 28-June-2008 at 6:45am

Your correct, it's only the site nav links.
  
]]> Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:45:37 +0000 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5808.html#5808 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5807.html#5807 Author: cmason
Subject: 1771
Posted: 28-June-2008 at 6:38am

I like the static approach, because it avoids another round trip to the db, but I really urge you to re-consider how it's implemented. The more that people have to "remember" the more errors there'll be.

Putting a note on the page won't work because users don't read. Making them go to another section to run a function just isn't going to happen. Going to another section after an add/edit isn't necessary for any other add/edits so it's out of the normal flow and changing categories isn't a daily task. There's only so much that can be put into a P&P document before it becomes unusable, it's better to have intuitive processes and navigation.

Thanks for the link to the previous dynamic code, I'd already previously looked it over when I found it referenced in a previous discussion and am pondering options. Viewcategories.asp uses the db so it looks like only the site nav links are affected.]]> Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:38:50 +0000 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5807.html#5807 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5806.html#5806 Author: Hamish
Subject: 1771
Posted: 28-June-2008 at 5:55am

ProductCart DOES have dynamic navigation - Or rather - It is available.
But I wouldn't recommend it for that number of categories.
FYI it's in the code snippets section of :
www.earlyimpact.com/productcart/support/developers.asp

I suspect it would become SOP for anyone managing products in the store and part of their training & documented procedures. If it's something they do all the time it's not a problem.
If getting people to remeber to re-generate it is an issue for your site(s) then add a big  bold link on the admin homepage :-)
]]> Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:55:53 +0000 https://forum.productcart.com/generate-navigation_topic1771_post5806.html#5806